Talk:Marvel Universe Reading Order Part 8
Regarding the recent move of the Black Knight comics to the 11th century: numerous sources have stated that Sir Percy lived in the 5th/6th century. Perhaps in 616 it was the Norman invasions that happened at a different time? ;) Zuckyd1 (talk) 18:54, November 10, 2016 (UTC) While the Black Knight comics aren't exactly the pinnacle of historical accuracy, there are a lot of small things pointing them to taking place in the High Middle Ages. Normans did not exist as a distinct culture until the 10th century, when they came about as the synthesis of Viking settlers and the native Frankish population. Likewise, Scots (who also appear) were a synthesis of Vikings and the Pictish people. Vikings, for their part, did not begin raiding by boat as depicted in the comics until the 8th century. The kingdom of France came into existence as West Francia in the 9th century (and would strictly speaking not be called "France" until the 12th century). And finally, the Tatars (referred to as "Tartars" in the comics >.<) only arrived to present-day Crimea from Asia in the 10th century (incidentally in so doing pushing the previously dominant Magyars west into the Carpathian Basin, where they would convert to Christianity and found the nation of Hungary). It's very unlikely they'd have had any contact with Europeans before that. If it's established elsewhere that Percy lived in the 5th/6th century, then that of course speaks in favour of moving the comics back to that period, but given the amount of detail pointing to High Middle Ages rather than Late Antiquity, I think Lee likely consciously moved the story up to the 10th century (or possibly as late as the 12th, though by this time Viking raids had all but ceased as the Norse peoples had long since converted to Christianity), and that this was further a very good decision. The legend of king Arthur as we know it today was mostly written in the 12th century, and very much depicts the world as it was at that time, not as it would've been in the days of the possible historical Arthur. The very concept of knighthood did not emerge in Europe until around the 8th century, after Charlemagne was crowned the first Holy Roman Emperor, and the strappings of the story in general are decidedly medieval. Lumilaulu (talk) 06:15, November 11, 2016 (UTC) You make some very good points. However the following comics all explicitly place Sir Percy's adventures in the sixth century: Avengers Annual #20, Mystic Arcana: Black Knight, New Excalibur #10, Uncanny Origins #11, and various Official Handbook entries. Also I question to what degree the use of "erroneous" historical details was a deliberate decision on Stan's part, as he is not exactly known for his meticulous research (see: transistors, magnetism, etc.) Zuckyd1 (talk) 19:20, November 11, 2016 (UTC) Well, I do still think it'd be quite a coincidence that all the elements in the stories -- Norman invaders, raiding vikings, French nobles, the Tatars -- happen to be such that they'd make sense specifically in the High Middle Ages, supposing Lee was just throwing in whatever he felt like. The stories aren't lifted from any legends of Arthur (at least that I'm familiar with), after all, and instead just borrow that general setting, so one can't explain that as flaws in the source material. Lee would at least later have more than a passing interest in mythology, so I should think he was aware of when the original legends came to be, and quite possibly also of their very poor historical accuracy. I still find it likely that the Black Knight comics were supposed to be set in High Middle Ages, but were later when the character was incorporated into the 616 retconned to have happened earlier. I even find it plausible this might've even been a error that just ended up persisting -- someone looking up that the original legends were set in the 6th century and concluding that that was when the stories must've taken place. At any rate, I don't think it's a major issue, precisely because the stories tie into the larger chronology so loosely. For a history buff such as myself the details stick out like a sore thumb, but I think most readers will be fine with either placement.Lumilaulu (talk) 20:06, November 11, 2016 (UTC)